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	<title>Comments on: Israel “far worse” than apartheid South Africa</title>
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	<link>http://last-straw.net/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/</link>
	<description>The weblog of Christiaan Briggs</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2011 08:52:58 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Vart tog den söta lilla Alex Bengtsson vägen?&#160;&#124;&#160;Nationell.nu</title>
		<link>http://last-straw.net/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-56524</link>
		<dc:creator>Vart tog den söta lilla Alex Bengtsson vägen?&#160;&#124;&#160;Nationell.nu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Jan 2011 10:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://last-straw.net/2005/10/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/#comment-56524</guid>
		<description>[...] av palestinier för mycket värre än Sydafrikas apartheid. Här är några av många exempel: Ron­nie Kas­rils, USA:s ex-president Jimmy Carter, South African Trade Unions ordförande Willie Madisha samt [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[…] av palestinier för mycket värre än Sydafrikas apartheid. Här är några av många exempel: Ron­nie Kas­rils, USA:s ex-president Jimmy Carter, South African Trade Unions ordförande Willie Madisha samt […]</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Battison</title>
		<link>http://last-straw.net/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-56207</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Battison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 23:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://last-straw.net/2005/10/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/#comment-56207</guid>
		<description>..which makes the current circumstances completely different. We are not talking about genetic make-ups that make two groups of people more hostile to one another. We are talking about causes of conflict that have by on large all come into place in the last hundred years.

And beside, even with your argument you neglect to take power and fear into account. For most of this period of history in which you note peace exisiting between Jews and Arabs, the Jews had no independent state. And neither had Arab nationalism or Zionism existed. The conflict is relatively modern because reasons to fear one another are relatively new.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>..which makes the current circumstances completely different. We are not talking about genetic make-ups that make two groups of people more hostile to one another. We are talking about causes of conflict that have by on large all come into place in the last hundred years.</p>
<p>And beside, even with your argument you neglect to take power and fear into account. For most of this period of history in which you note peace exisiting between Jews and Arabs, the Jews had no independent state. And neither had Arab nationalism or Zionism existed. The conflict is relatively modern because reasons to fear one another are relatively new.</p>
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		<title>By: Christiaan</title>
		<link>http://last-straw.net/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-56197</link>
		<dc:creator>Christiaan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://last-straw.net/2005/10/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/#comment-56197</guid>
		<description>Jews and Arabs have lived in relative peace and indifference towards each other for thousands of years of Middle Eastern history. The primary cause of hostility has a modern origin, the creation of Israel after WWII.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jews and Arabs have lived in relative peace and indifference towards each other for thousands of years of Middle Eastern history. The primary cause of hostility has a modern origin, the creation of Israel after WWII.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Battison</title>
		<link>http://last-straw.net/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-56195</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Battison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 13:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://last-straw.net/2005/10/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/#comment-56195</guid>
		<description>Where and when has it been done before?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where and when has it been done before?</p>
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		<title>By: Christiaan</title>
		<link>http://last-straw.net/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-56191</link>
		<dc:creator>Christiaan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 21:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://last-straw.net/2005/10/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/#comment-56191</guid>
		<description>Maybe so but it&#039;s been done before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe so but it’s been done before.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Battison</title>
		<link>http://last-straw.net/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-56189</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Battison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 15:33:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://last-straw.net/2005/10/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/#comment-56189</guid>
		<description>You mean Palestinians and Israelis living harmoniously side by side in one state? Unfortunately I don&#039;t think that&#039;s likely to happen. It is possible that in a hundred years Israel is accepted into a Middle Eastern European Union, with free trade between the Palestinian and Israeli areas. But even that is unlikely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You mean Palestinians and Israelis living harmoniously side by side in one state? Unfortunately I don’t think that’s likely to happen. It is possible that in a hundred years Israel is accepted into a Middle Eastern European Union, with free trade between the Palestinian and Israeli areas. But even that is unlikely.</p>
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		<title>By: Christiaan</title>
		<link>http://last-straw.net/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-56185</link>
		<dc:creator>Christiaan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://last-straw.net/2005/10/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/#comment-56185</guid>
		<description>Two states first, yes, but ultimately the only lasting solution is one state (or no state).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two states first, yes, but ultimately the only lasting solution is one state (or no state).</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Battison</title>
		<link>http://last-straw.net/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-56184</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Battison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 15:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://last-straw.net/2005/10/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/#comment-56184</guid>
		<description>&quot;Israel is merely a military occupation and can be rectified if that was the government&#039;s true intention&quot;?!!? Israel is not simply a military occupation, it is a country. Whether or not the world is ready to accept it Zionism (created because of their suffering accross Europe from Spain to Russia) has created a nation of people. A military occupation force could go home. But Israelis have nowhere other than where they are. And even if they were able to move elsewhere they would not be willing. Israel is now thought of as the one place that Jews could have gone in the twentieth century. But in fact before Israel came on the table Jews were offered the opportunity to settle in Rhodesia (Zimbabwe). This split the Zionist movement, and eventually the call for Israel won. After living in Israel for this long I seriously doubt they would now consider moving elsewhere. 

It is not possible to go into the entire history here but both sides have reasons for their claims and their actions. You are right that it is the Israelis who need to be taking the first step, and many others are right to say that the Israelis have been hugely hypocritical in their treatment of the Palestinians. But Israel is not turning a cold shoulder on the Palestinians due to a belief in their racial superiority. They do so due to their philosophy of an &#039;Iron Wall&#039; (Jabotinsky coined the concept in the 20s if you want to look it up). Basically they fear doing what might be construed as a sign of weakness. They fear creating a hole in this wall that their enemies will flood through, creating a new holocaust.

That said however, the &#039;iron wall&#039; is flawed for too many reasons to state. There are only two outcomes of the Israeli-Palestinian problem. The first is death and misery, which I&#039;m sure you&#039;ll agree no one wants. The second is that Palestinians are given the &#039;right of return&#039;, even if only as a symbolical gesture, and that two states are created on the pre-1967 border with Jerusalem acting as a joint Capital guarded and enforced by UN Peacekeeping troops and also a UN police force. This solution will be incredibly difficult; it will require huge funds being invested into the new states to ensure that they are a success; and it will require a great deal of international pressure, perhaps even outright force to ensure. But that is the way forward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Israel is merely a military occupation and can be rectified if that was the government’s true intention”?!!? Israel is not simply a military occupation, it is a country. Whether or not the world is ready to accept it Zionism (created because of their suffering accross Europe from Spain to Russia) has created a nation of people. A military occupation force could go home. But Israelis have nowhere other than where they are. And even if they were able to move elsewhere they would not be willing. Israel is now thought of as the one place that Jews could have gone in the twentieth century. But in fact before Israel came on the table Jews were offered the opportunity to settle in Rhodesia (Zimbabwe). This split the Zionist movement, and eventually the call for Israel won. After living in Israel for this long I seriously doubt they would now consider moving elsewhere. </p>
<p>It is not possible to go into the entire history here but both sides have reasons for their claims and their actions. You are right that it is the Israelis who need to be taking the first step, and many others are right to say that the Israelis have been hugely hypocritical in their treatment of the Palestinians. But Israel is not turning a cold shoulder on the Palestinians due to a belief in their racial superiority. They do so due to their philosophy of an ‘Iron Wall’ (Jabotinsky coined the concept in the 20s if you want to look it up). Basically they fear doing what might be construed as a sign of weakness. They fear creating a hole in this wall that their enemies will flood through, creating a new holocaust.</p>
<p>That said however, the ‘iron wall’ is flawed for too many reasons to state. There are only two outcomes of the Israeli-Palestinian problem. The first is death and misery, which I’m sure you’ll agree no one wants. The second is that Palestinians are given the ‘right of return’, even if only as a symbolical gesture, and that two states are created on the pre-1967 border with Jerusalem acting as a joint Capital guarded and enforced by UN Peacekeeping troops and also a UN police force. This solution will be incredibly difficult; it will require huge funds being invested into the new states to ensure that they are a success; and it will require a great deal of international pressure, perhaps even outright force to ensure. But that is the way forward.</p>
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		<title>By: The intellectual dishonesty of those who don&#8217;t speak out against Zionism &#124; Last Straw</title>
		<link>http://last-straw.net/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-55475</link>
		<dc:creator>The intellectual dishonesty of those who don&#8217;t speak out against Zionism &#124; Last Straw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 13:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://last-straw.net/2005/10/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/#comment-55475</guid>
		<description>[...] It&#8217;s deplorable the number of people, mostly so-called &#8220;liberals,&#8221; who choose to keep their mouths shut in the face of the scourge that is Zionism, something Ronnie Kasrils, a South African politician who was active in the fight against apartheid from the 60’s onwards, described as &#8220;far worse&#8221; than apartheid South Africa. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[…] It’s deplorable the number of people, mostly so-called “liberals,” who choose to keep their mouths shut in the face of the scourge that is Zionism, something Ronnie Kasrils, a South African politician who was active in the fight against apartheid from the 60’s onwards, described as “far worse” than apartheid South Africa. […]</p>
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		<title>By: Nicole</title>
		<link>http://last-straw.net/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-54719</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:51:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://last-straw.net/2005/10/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/#comment-54719</guid>
		<description>I find it amazing that a comment of this magnitude. The unfortunate plight of apartheid in South Africa was horrendous and should not even be commpared to the events that are occurring in Israel. Apartheid was a means of capital gain by the racist Europeans to seize wealth and economic gain for themselves at the expence of an entitre nation of people. Israel is merely a military occupation and can be rectified if that was the government&#039;s true intention!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it amazing that a comment of this magnitude. The unfortunate plight of apartheid in South Africa was horrendous and should not even be commpared to the events that are occurring in Israel. Apartheid was a means of capital gain by the racist Europeans to seize wealth and economic gain for themselves at the expence of an entitre nation of people. Israel is merely a military occupation and can be rectified if that was the government’s true intention!</p>
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		<title>By: Why the meaning of &#8220;anti-Semitism&#8221; has changed at Last Straw</title>
		<link>http://last-straw.net/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-54434</link>
		<dc:creator>Why the meaning of &#8220;anti-Semitism&#8221; has changed at Last Straw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 18:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://last-straw.net/2005/10/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/#comment-54434</guid>
		<description>[...] Something I&#8217;ve experienced myself. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[…] Something I’ve experienced myself. […]</p>
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		<title>By: sally</title>
		<link>http://last-straw.net/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-43779</link>
		<dc:creator>sally</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 01:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://last-straw.net/2005/10/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/#comment-43779</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately not all jews are as brave as those who speak out against Israel and zionism, but there are a few and I applaud them.

As for the comment by Kofi, Israel has broken over 200 UN human rights laws, South Africa broke less then 30, you do the math, if you can manage it.

Plus Israel is a military occupation, the worst ever, Apartheid was not military it was by force - police force - but is was not the 3rd most powerful military against an unarmed civilian population.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately not all jews are as brave as those who speak out against Israel and zionism, but there are a few and I applaud them.</p>
<p>As for the comment by Kofi, Israel has broken over 200 UN human rights laws, South Africa broke less then 30, you do the math, if you can manage it.</p>
<p>Plus Israel is a military occupation, the worst ever, Apartheid was not military it was by force — police force — but is was not the 3rd most powerful military against an unarmed civilian population.</p>
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		<title>By: nangas</title>
		<link>http://last-straw.net/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-30672</link>
		<dc:creator>nangas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 11:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://last-straw.net/2005/10/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/#comment-30672</guid>
		<description>Brilliant, what else are we being misquoted with on a daily basis? No wonder most of us have our head in the sand!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brilliant, what else are we being misquoted with on a daily basis? No wonder most of us have our head in the sand!</p>
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		<title>By: kofi</title>
		<link>http://last-straw.net/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-15725</link>
		<dc:creator>kofi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 16:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://last-straw.net/2005/10/israel-far-worse-than-apartheid-south-africa/#comment-15725</guid>
		<description>Nonsense! Utter balderdash. The experience of blacks under the fascist rule of whites in South Africa was by far worse than the experience of the Palestinians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nonsense! Utter balderdash. The experience of blacks under the fascist rule of whites in South Africa was by far worse than the experience of the Palestinians.</p>
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