They murder while we accidently kill

I’ve lost count of the num­ber of times I’ve run into right-wingers who seem to have an unwaver­ing belief that the crimes of their foes are to be loudly pro­claimed and harshly pun­ished while their own crimes are to be wholly jus­ti­fied in the pur­suit of their ideo­logy. The ends jus­ti­fies the means apparently.

With such people in mind George Orwell once wrote:

Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own mer­its, but accord­ing to who does them. There is almost no kind of out­rage — tor­ture, impris­on­ment without trial, assas­sin­a­tion, the bomb­ing of civil­ians — which does not change its moral col­our when it is com­mit­ted by ‘our’ side. … The nation­al­ist not only does not dis­ap­prove of atro­cit­ies com­mit­ted by his own side, he has remark­able capa­city for not even hear­ing about them.

David Farrar, New Zealand National Party member and right-wing blogger.Now let me intro­duce you to David Far­rar, a New Zea­l­and National Party mem­ber and a pop­u­lar blog­ger among right-wingers in New Zealand.

In the com­ments sec­tion of a recent post stir­ring up Islamo­pho­bia, David respon­ded to one of his readers:

Oh dear every apo­lo­gist is out today. David Blake says there is no dif­fer­ence between acci­den­tial civil­ian cas­u­al­ties in a war and delib­er­ate tar­get­ting of civilians.

What David Blake actu­ally said was this:

Whether civil­ians are being killed by sui­cide bombers … or by the latest and greatest mil­it­ary tools … makes no dif­fer­ence to me. It’s still killing inno­cent people … to fur­ther an agenda.

As you can see David Far­rar took the liberty of adding “acci­dental.” You see it’s “acci­dental” because the killers are on his side. It doesn’t mat­ter what the facts might be, it is an unques­tion­ing pre­sump­tion. And a pre­sump­tion that doesn’t fit the facts.

Democracy We DeliverWhile there are many hor­rific instances through­out recent his­tory that could be used as an example, such as the bomb­ing of Iraq, Viet­nam, Cam­bodia, or the atomic bomb­ings of Hiroshima and Naga­saki, here’s a well doc­u­mented one I came across while read­ing Wil­liam Blum’s now infam­ous book:

The most com­mon argu­ment made in NATO’s defense, and against war-crime charges [with regard to the bomb­ing of Yugoslavia], has been that the death and dev­ast­a­tion inflic­ted upon the civil­ian sec­tor was “acci­dental”. This claim, how­ever, must be ques­tioned in light of cer­tain reports. For example, the com­mander of NATO’s air war, Lt. Gen. Michael Short, declared at one point:

If you wake up in the morn­ing and you have no power to your house and no gas to your stove and the bridge you take to work is down and will be lying in the Danube for the next 20 years, I think you begin to ask, “Hey, Slobo, what’s this all about? How much more of this do we have to with­stand?”” [1]

Gen­eral Short, said the New York Times, “hopes that the dis­tress of the Yugoslav pub­lic will under­mine sup­port for the author­it­ies in Bel­grade.” [2]

At another point, NATO spokes­man Jamie Shea added: “If Pres­id­ent Milo­sevic really wants all of his pop­u­la­tion to have water and elec­tri­city all he has to do is accept NATO’s five con­di­tions and we will stop this cam­paign.” [3]

After the April NATO bomb­ing of a Bel­grade office build­ing — which housed polit­ical parties, TV and radio sta­tions, 100 private com­pan­ies and more — the Wash­ing­ton Post reported:

Over the past few days, U.S. offi­cials have been quoted as express­ing the hope that mem­bers of Serbia’s eco­nomic elite will begin to turn against Milo­sevic once they under­stand how much they are likely to lose by con­tinu­ing to res­ist NATO demands.” [4]

Before Mis­siles were fired into this build­ing, NATO plan­ners spelled out the risks: “Cas­u­alty Estim­ate 50 – 100 Gov­ern­ment employ­ees. Unin­ten­ded Civ Cas­u­alty Est: 250 — Apts in expec­ted blast radius.” [5] The plan­ners were say­ing that about 250 civil­ians liv­ing in nearby apart­ment build­ings might be killed in the bombing.

What do we have here? We have grown men telling each other: We’ll do A, and we think that B may well be the res­ult. But even if B does in fact res­ult, we’re say­ing before­hand — as we’ll insist after­ward — that it was unintended.

In short, it’s a great big pile of stink­ing shit to believe that these people, who are try­ing to rule the world, are in any way inter­ested in the wel­fare of those who can’t sup­ply them with more wealth or power.

David Far­rar, like so many other right-wingers these days, is blinded by his ideo­logy, which itself thrives on a fear­ful and con­fused pop­u­la­tion. In accus­ing oth­ers of being an apo­lo­gist, he is prov­ing to be pre­cisely that himself.

Note: 51, 52 and 54 of the Geneva Con­ven­tions (Pro­tocol 1) are the rel­ev­ant art­icles if you’re interested.

Comments

24 Comments so far. Leave a comment below.
  1. Didn’t hap­pen to catch Boston Legal last night did you?

    Bril­liant speech about the use of tor­ture by the US and how it’s ok as long as its “us” doing it and not “them”.

    That is a nice photo by the way

  2. I’ve heard of that show. Sounds good, but I don’t have TV.

    I thought it was a nice photo too. Of course I’m happy to cen­sor it at request.

  3. Mark,

    Yes, thank­fully left-wingers are not caught up in their own ideo­logy. Ideo­logy is a right wing concept. Of course, hypo­crisy the left-wingers have all to themselves.

  4. Tane W,

    G’day,

    First thing. Us lefties have ideo­lo­gies too, and many do and say stu­pid things in defence of them. All ideo­logy is bad, not just the right wing stuff.

    Secondly, I guess the only dif­fer­ence is one of intent. An 11 month old baby killed by a cruise mis­sile is just as dead as one killed by a car bomb, but the mis­sile was not fired spe­cific­ally to kill that baby. The car bomb was (likely) det­on­ated with that inten­tion. This may sound like split­ting hairs to you, but in a war people are killed, and many times they’re not the ones act­ively tak­ing part. I agree that inno­cent death is rep­re­hens­ible, but in many cases I can’t see the altern­at­ive. OK, the US should not be in Iraq, which means a lot of inno­cent people would still be alive. But there are times when you have to fight, and in doing so you will kill the innocent.

    I’m for­tu­nate to have done a recent (small) study of the Kosovo cam­paign. NATO tried bomb­ing the Serb units com­mit­ing atro­cit­ies against the Koso­vars, but with lim­ited res­ults. As they had already deployed into theatre, the Serb mil­it­ary and police units dis­persed into 20 – 100 man groups, often on foot or in light vehicles. They had suf­fi­cient com­bat power to defeat the lightly armed KLA, and more than enough to ter­ror­ise the Albanian civil­ians into leav­ing. Short of send­ing in a pro­jec­ted 200,000+ ground troops (which massively raises cas­u­alty rates, on both sides and in civil­ians) the only option NATO had was to strike stra­tegic tar­gets. Power plants, sew­er­age works, factor­ies. This is a shitty thing to do, but without it the Serbs would have evicted 1.8 mil­lion Albani­ans into Mace­do­nia and Albania. What would have stopped them? Internal pres­sure on Milo­sevic together with dip­lo­matic pres­sure from the Rus­si­ans and neigh­bours resolved that con­flict. Tac­tical bomb­ing of sol­diers in Kosovo did not, and could not.

    War is ter­rible, but there are worse things than war, like gen­o­cide and slavery. If you make war to pre­vent those things, then you will kill inno­cent people. That is why a civ­il­ised nation never makes war lightly, and if it does, makes sure it is as short and sharp as pos­sible. But no mat­ter how well you do it, there is still going to be some 11 month old baby dead at the end of it.

  5. RWDB,

    Chris­ti­aan,

    I fol­low your Orwell link on nation­al­ists and what do I find? I find that you fall squarely into one of the cat­egor­ies of nation­al­ists your­self. Quoting:

    Trans­ferred Nationalism

    (v) Paci­fism. The major­ity of paci­fists either belong to obscure reli­gious sects or are simply human­it­ari­ans who object to the tak­ing of life and prefer not to fol­low their thoughts bey­ond that point. But there is a minor­ity of intel­lec­tual paci­fists whose real though unad­mit­ted motive appears to be hatred of west­ern demo­cracy and admir­a­tion of total­it­ari­an­ism. Paci­fist pro­pa­ganda usu­ally boils down to say­ing that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writ­ings of younger intel­lec­tual paci­fists, one finds that they do not by any means express impar­tial dis­ap­proval but are dir­ec­ted almost entirely against Bri­tain and the United States. Moreover they do not as a rule con­demn viol­ence as such, but only viol­ence used in defence of west­ern coun­tries. The Rus­si­ans, unlike the Brit­ish, are not blamed for defend­ing them­selves by war­like means, and indeed all paci­fist pro­pa­ganda of this type avoids men­tion of Rus­sia or China. It is not claimed, again, that the Indi­ans should abjure viol­ence in their struggle against the Brit­ish. Paci­fist lit­er­at­ure abounds with equi­vocal remarks which, if they mean any­thing, appear to mean that states­men of the type of Hitler are prefer­able to those of the type of Churchill, and that viol­ence is per­haps excus­able if it is viol­ent enough. After the fall of France, the French paci­fists, faced by a real choice which their Eng­lish col­leagues have not had to make, mostly went over to the Nazis, and in Eng­land there appears to have been some small over­lap of mem­ber­ship between the Peace Pledge Union and the Black­shirts. Paci­fist writers have writ­ten in praise of Carlyle, one of the intel­lec­tual fath­ers of Fas­cism. All in all it is dif­fi­cult not to feel that paci­fism, as it appears among a sec­tion of the intel­li­gent­sia, is secretly inspired by an admir­a­tion for power and suc­cess­ful cruelty. The mis­take was made of pin­ning this emo­tion to Hitler, but it could eas­ily be retransfered.”

  6. I’m not a paci­fist kid, sorry. I believe abso­lutely in the right to defend with viol­ence. Nor do I have any admir­a­tion for any nation-state. I think they should be abolished.

    If you look you’ll also notice that none of my writ­ing cri­ti­cises viol­ence used in defence of west­ern coun­tries. It cri­ti­cises viol­ence used in aggression.

    As per usual, you dis­pensed with the sub­stance of the debate. I find that you exhibit some kind of guilt for being a flip flopper.

  7. Tane, Mark, you’re right, I may be wrong to single out right-wingers. There are many left-wingers who are only too will­ing to fall into the same trap, and there are many right-wingers who don’t. How­ever it’s no sur­prise that most of those I’ve come across are right-wingers (at least of the fol­lower vari­ety). Their mas­ters are, after all, the ones try­ing to rule the world.

    Tane, with regard to your argu­ment about intent, my point was that there is in fact intent; that “acci­dent” is simply a pro­pa­ganda term, or even a conscience-soothing device. As my example indic­ates, the “mas­ters of the uni­verse” are very much happy with killing civil­ians and col­lect­ively pun­ish­ing populations.

  8. Tane W,

    G’day Chris­ti­aan,

    The killing of the inno­cent is never a good thing, and is very hard to jus­tify in my opin­ion. That means of course that I do believe that it can be jus­ti­fied, but only in the most extreme of cir­cum­stances. For instance, the Allies killed approx­im­ately 70,000 French civil­ians in the lead up to D-Day, through their bomb­ing cam­paign to isol­ate Nor­mandy and deceive the Ger­mans (taken from John Ellis, Brute Force). This is more than the Ger­mans killed dur­ing the Blitz against the Brit­ish. 70,000 is a lot of inno­cent life to take, but I don’t think any of us would argue that the Allies should not have done it, lead­ing as it did to the lib­er­a­tion of West­ern Europe. Even the French, never ones to let some­thing go, do not dwell on this; it was simply the (ter­rible) price of their liberty.

    That is why I used the Kosovo example to prove my point that it is accept­able in some cir­cum­stances to kill the inno­cent. The Serbs were killing far more inno­cent people than NATO, and would have con­tin­ued to do so dir­ectly (murder) and indir­ectly (star­va­tion, expos­ure) if left alone. Tac­tical bomb­ing was inef­fect­ive, the Serb counter-measures (decoys, dis­per­sion, cam­o­flague) prov­ing more than a match for even NATO’s much vaunted tech­no­logy. The only other real option avail­able to NATO was to strike stra­tegic tar­gets and col­lect­ively pun­ish the Serb people (who were not entirely inno­cent; even Milo­sevic oppon­ents backed the Kosovo cam­paign). The res­ult­ing pres­sure, with external dip­lo­matic pres­sure, was what toppled Milo­sevic. The ques­tion that needs to be asked is; is 1 Serb baby worth 5 – 10 Albanian ones, because that’s the ratio of killing that was going on. I think NATO did the right thing under the cir­cum­stances. I do not believe that they were com­fort­able with killing inno­cent kids, clean­ers and nurses, but that is what war usu­ally involves. Com­mand­ers have to make hard decisions about other people’s lives.

    What detracts from the West’s per­form­ance is that while they were doing the right thing for the right reas­ons in Kosovo, at the same time they were doing the same thing for the wrong reas­ons in Iraq. The sanc­tions and peri­odic bomb­ings of Iraq turned out to be noth­ing more than a siege, one respons­ible for the deaths of hun­dreds of thou­sands of inno­cents. Right-wingers point out that this is all Saddam’s fault, if only he’d relen­ted. They have a point, but not a com­plete one. There is no reason why the Iraqis could not have been allowed to rebuild their sewage works, their power plants, their infra­struc­ture. Right wing­ers have to ask them­selves, was it worth the deaths of all those people just to keep Iraq as pathet­ic­ally weak as it was? Could we have loosened the sanc­tions enough to lower the death toll, and still have kept WMDs out of Saddam’s hands? I believe that yes, this could have been done, but it wasn’t because it was always the inten­tion of the US and UK to go back in one day.

    The situ­ation and your intent are everything. In Kosovo I believe it made the killing of the inno­cent accept­able. In Iraq I believe it made the killing of the inno­cent a crime against humanity.

  9. The prob­lem is Tane, you obvi­ously believe that intent is largely what they say it is. For that I just can’t take this dis­cus­sion seriously.

  10. Tane W,

    I’m not sure where you’re com­ing from Chris­ti­aan. I believe that the elites run­ning this world will do any­thing to keep their grip on power; this is a com­mon fea­ture of all elites, in all places, all through­out his­tory. Lie­ing about their inten­tions is a nor­mal device used by them.

    But elites do more than just keep them­selves in power and enrich them­selves. They can and do do other things. The elites of Vic­torian and Edwar­d­ian Bri­tain did some pretty hor­rendous things, but at the same time they developed clean water and sew­er­age sys­tems, banned child labour, increased the vot­ing fran­chise and began the pub­lic health and edu­ca­tion sys­tems. This was not all foun­ded in self interest.

    For the same reason the elites who run our civil­isa­tion can do ‘the right thing’, as I believe they did in Kosovo even when the poten­tial gain is rel­at­ively small; ulti­mately, who cares if the people’s of the Balkans kill each other? Will it spoil the cof­fee in Paris, the beer in Eng­land, the dough­nuts in Wash­ing­ton? There bound to be some ulterior motives in there, but as far as I can see that cam­paign was fought for good reason. This of course had a lot to do with pres­sure in the West, brought to bear by human­ist NGOs and parties. Regard­less of this, the elites decided to act. Kosovo is still a shit-fight, but at least it’s not a grave­yard, not this time at least.

    I don’t take state­ments by Clin­ton, Bush, Blair etc at face value; they all need to be ana­lysed very closely. But at times the bull­shit matches the real­ity; Kosovo was one of them.

  11. con­vin­cing argu­ment tane. there is always a reason the west will use force. for the greater good.

    for someone so vehe­ment chris­ti­aan you do a pretty lame attemp­ted rebut­tal. at least have the cour­tesy to address Tane’s points ser­i­ously rather than your limp dis­missal of intent

  12. che tibby,

    chris­tian,

    enjoy­ing the atten­tion? at least you’ve attrac­ted the more reas­on­able of the right.

    when any­one from Sir Hump­ties gets here, just build a bunker.

    in the com­menters defence, i think they see ‘The West’ as being a little like the United Fed­er­a­tion of Plan­ets. they may be the good guys, but they fck things up occasionally.

    i see this pos­i­tion as being altrusic­ally naive. the civil­ising mis­sion was a classic.

  13. Rich,

    I’d make a couple of points:

    1. There are obvi­ous occa­sions when force is jus­ti­fied. WW2 was clearly one — Hitler had invaded most of Europe with massive force. Kosovo was prob­ably one also — it’s was pretty clear that the Kosovans *wanted* an inter­ven­tion. Both also had the back­ing of inter­na­tional law, WW2 was col­lect­ive self-defence and Kosovo was author­ised by the UN.

    The inva­sion of Iraq is both illegal and has as its primary pur­pose the cre­ation of a state friendly to US interests.

    2. If a people has sig­ni­fic­ant mil­it­ary power, then it has options. It can choose to min­im­ise civil­ian cas­u­al­ties, or indeed to nego­ti­ate rather than fight. If a people has no mil­it­ary power, then their options are lim­ited — they basic­ally have no choice but to make their pres­ence felt and try and make the occu­pier give up and find someone less awk­ward to opress. This is referred to as “terrorism”.

  14. Tane W,

    G’day Sage,

    Thanks for the com­ment. But you’ll notice that I sort of bela­boured the point about Kosovo being ‘a good fight’. I didn’t use too many other examples because there aren’t many. A lot of west­ern wars over the last 60 years were ones of dom­in­a­tion and/or exploit­a­tion. The Kosovos and Somalias (good inten­tions poorly executed in the case of the lat­ter) are few and far between.

  15. RWDB,

    The real prob­lem is, ration­al­ity is to Chris­ti­aan what vir­gin­ity is to Paris Hilton.

    I have attemp­ted dis­cus­sion on this blog with him before, but the chance of get­ting a con­sidered reply is zip. Any dis­sent­ing opin­ion simply res­ults in him put­ting his fin­gers in his ears, giv­ing you a reply to the effect of “you dis­agree with me there­fore you must be wrong, now read this Chom­sky­ite lit­er­at­ure, pray to Pil­ger, and then and only then will you gain sal­va­tion”. Fail­ing that he repeatedly calls you fas­cist or similar.

    But why think for your­self when you can get all the con­spir­acy the­or­ies and simple-minded epi­grams you need from the latest Osama’s Book Club picks?

  16. Rich, NATO did not have the back­ing of the United Nations to use force in Yugoslavia.

  17. RWDB, you couldn’t stick to the sub­stance of a debate if your mother’s cuddles depended on it. In fact no doubt you’ve turned out the way you have because you didn’t get enough cuddles. Please go away, leave adult dis­cus­sion to the adults.

  18. Tane, you are too gener­er­ous. Clean water, sew­er­age sys­tems, the ban­ning of child labour, increased vot­ing fran­chise, pub­lic health, edu­ca­tion. These things were not ‘provided’ by an elite!! They were often largely fought for and gained des­pite of an elite. For one example have a read of The Vote: how it was won and how it was under­mined, by Paul Foot.

    But let’s say that the elite do some good things, the fact still remains that they use the nation-state sys­tem to gain a mono­poly on viol­ence and use it to advance their interests*. This we appear to agree on. Why you then go on to argue that war crimes were jus­ti­fied in Yugoslavia when the evid­ence shows it was far from the “most extreme of cir­cum­stances” (which you con­sider the basis of jus­ti­fic­a­tion for killing inno­cent people) I don’t know.

    You seem to be arguing that the point of my ori­ginal post is valid, but that it doesn’t apply for the example I cite. Well, I say to you that not only was the most fero­cious sus­tained bomb­ing cam­paign in human his­tory not required but in fact war could have been avoided altogether.

    As you are prob­ably aware many of your claims about Kosovo are highly con­ten­tious, includ­ing your asser­tion that less died as a res­ult of the bomb­ing, and espe­cially your so-called ratio of killing. An “eth­nic cleans­ing” yes (much like Palestine), but gen­o­cide it was not.

    As Chomksy points out**, it was NATO’s bomb­ing cam­paign that gave rise to the bulk of the deaths in Yugoslavia and pro­voked most of the Ser­bian atrocities.

    The logic, widely accep­ted, is intriguing. Uncon­tro­ver­sially, the vast crimes took place after the bomb­ing began: they were not a cause but a con­sequence. It requires con­sid­er­able auda­city, there­fore, to take the crimes to provide ret­ro­spect­ive jus­ti­fic­a­tion for the actions that con­trib­uted to incit­ing them.

    Grave viol­a­tions of human­atarian law were car­ried out by NATO, includ­ing the bomb­ing of elec­tri­city and water sup­plies, tele­vi­sion sta­tions, vil­lages, hos­pit­als, schools, apart­ment build­ings; the employ­ment of pois­on­ous weapons such as depleted uranium tipped muni­tions, and the use of cluster bombs — many dir­ect viol­a­tions of the Geneva Con­ven­tions — and all car­ried out in viol­a­tion of the UN Charter.

    All mil­it­ary and most non-military inter­ven­tions car­ried out by or in part­ner­ship with the U.S. since WWII can be boiled down to one basic prin­ciple, “they were not doing as they were told.” And the Kosovo war is no excep­tion. It can be eas­ily argued, based on the his­tory of such inter­ven­tions, that it was car­ried out not because of the pro­claimed pro­tec­tion of Albanian civil­ians, but “to expand NATO and U.S. pres­ence to Ser­bia, as a part of lar­ger strategy of expan­sion to East­ern Europe, to which Milošević was opposed. When this was not accep­ted, the other, equally import­ant goal, was to demon­strate power and use of force as an example against any­one who opposes U.S. dic­tate, and thus set a pre­ced­ent for the emer­ging New World Order in which the only remain­ing super­power asserts its interests aggress­ively and without regards to the pre­vi­ously known rules.” As John Pil­ger** poin­ted out:

    Milošević was a brute; he was also a banker once regarded as the west’s man who was pre­pared to imple­ment “eco­nomic reforms” in keep­ing with IMF, World Bank and European Com­munity demands; to his cost, he refused to sur­render sov­er­eignty. The empire expects noth­ing less.

    Kosovo — the site of a gen­o­cide that never was — is now a viol­ent “free mar­ket” in drugs and pros­ti­tu­tion. What does this tell us about the likely out­come of the Iraq war?

    You asked what could have stopped the Serbs (other than the most fero­cious sus­tained bomb­ing in human his­tory). Chom­sky dis­cussed this, and as he poin­ted out we’ll never know for sure because NATO refused to enter­tain such possibilities.

    What it boils down to is that it is not clear at all that Kosovo was the “most extreme of cir­cum­stances,” for which you con­sider the basis of jus­ti­fic­a­tion for killing inno­cent people. You may believe the bomb­ing of Yugoslavia was the first war in his­tory fought “in the name of prin­ciples and val­ues,” the first bold step towards a “new era” in which the “enlightened states” will pro­tect the human rights of all under the guid­ing hand of an “ideal­istic New World bent on end­ing inhu­man­ity”. I do not.

    *In fact I believe the nation-state sys­tem is largely respons­ible for war and chaos.

    ** Chom­sky and Pil­ger quotes added primar­ily for the bene­fit of in-house dunce and flip flop­per, “Right Wing Death Beast” (a.k.a. RWDB)

  19. Che wrote:

    at least you’ve attrac­ted the more reas­on­able of the right.

    Well, except that Tane con­siders him­self a lefty.

  20. Tane W,

    Chris­ti­aan,

    Firstly, your inter­est­ing com­ment: ‘Well, except that Tane con­siders him­self a lefty.’

    We don’t live in a mon­chrome world, and there are many dif­fer­ent shades of left-wing lib­eral. You are not the liv­ing exem­plar of all that it is to be a lefty. If I dis­agree with you on some points (and we are dis­agree­ing on points, not on a broad issue) then that does not make me a wan­nabe lib­eral or a right-wingnut. Please don’t get all Judean People’s Front/People’s Front of Judea on me.

    I read through Chomsky’s piece, and it was very inter­est­ing. He makes a very good point, that NATO failed to reach a dip­lo­matic accord and did not exhaust all options before bomb­ing. He then spoils this by stat­ing that the atro­cit­ies star­ted after the bomb­ing, thus per­petu­at­ing that par­tic­u­lar piece of Serb pro­pa­ganda. Look at the fol­low­ing two links, admit­tedly one of them is Brit­ish Min­istry of Defence, but it quotes UNHCR and Human Rights Watch. These make it clear that the atro­cit­ies star­ted before the nego­ti­ations at Rambouillet;

    http://www.hrw.org/wr2k/Eca.htm#TopOfPage
    http://www.kosovo.mod.uk/atrocities.htm

    NATO stopped nego­ti­at­ing because the Serbs were already killing people. I did not say at any point that the Serbs were com­mit­ting gen­o­cide; this was not their aim. Their aim was to use ter­ror to force the Albanian pop­u­la­tion out of Kosovo, thus allow­ing them to become the major­ity pop­u­la­tion in land they con­sidered theirs. That 90% of the pop­u­la­tion was Albanian was irrel­ev­ant to them. The Serbs con­duc­ted what became known as Oper­a­tion Horse­shoe, estab­lish­ing a cor­don along the north­ern bor­ders and mov­ing in. They were care­ful to leave roads open, to allow the Koso­vars to flee.

    The Human Rights Watch art­icle also makes a very good point; that the West could have aver­ted the crisis much earlier (as well as the Bos­nia dis­aster) with dip­lomacy up to 10 years pre­vi­ously. Agreed, the West screwed up big time. But hav­ing stuffed it con­tinu­ously, it appears that we should have kept on stuff­ing up by try­ing to deal with Milo­sevic while his troops were cleans­ing the province. That’s what Chom­sky seems to say. I respect and admire the man and his work, but in this case I believe he is wrong.

    The Serbs had already deployed 40,000 troops and police into Kosovo prior to the nego­ti­ations. They then dis­persed and hid, mak­ing them­selves largely invul­ner­able to air attack. Before and dur­ing the nego­ti­ations they began Oper­a­tion Horse­shoe; have a look at Micheal Ignatieff’s ‘Vir­tual War’, it goes over this quite well. The West had two options at this point. Keep talk­ing, use sanc­tions and threats, giv­ing the Serbs the time they needed to cleanse Kosovo and present a fait accom­pli. Or use mil­it­ary action. Hav­ing failed to address the issue prior to this, and now hav­ing painted them­selves into a corner through their own neg­lect, the West did the only real­istic thing, and that was to bomb.

    I don’t know why you think it was such a fero­cious bomb­ing cam­paign. Cam­bodia, Laos and Korea all suffered much worse; 10,500 strike sorties were flown, by up to 900 air­craft. This sounds impress­ive, but it’s not, aver­aging out to 1 mis­sion every 3 nights per strike air­craft (about half the total). As NATO found out, the Serb army units were imper­vi­ous to the air strikes. They lost sol­diers, vehicles, equip­ment, but never enough to render them inef­fect­ive. At no stage in the 78 day bomb­ing cam­paign did the Serb Army stop fight­ing. Air power is not the per­fect tool it’s adher­ents make it out to be. Weather, moun­tains, dis­persal, cam­o­flague, decoys, radio silence and even the 1960s era Serb air defence sys­tems were more than enough to defeat NATO bombs. With only this to face, the Serbs would have achieved their aims, and then even­tu­ally come back to the table hav­ing cleansed Kosovo. For your inform­a­tion, the Serb Army came out of Kosovo in excel­lent con­di­tion, and the meth­ods they used to pre­serve their forces against NATO strikes are stud­ied to this day.

    Strik­ing stra­tegic tar­gets, in this case power plants, factor­ies, refiner­ies and bridges, is always mor­ally hard. Faced with the cer­tainty of more Albanian dead, this was some­thing that had to be done. It sucks, but that’s life. I don’t like it either, but I can­not see any other option avail­able at the time, not when time was of the essence. It was these strikes that forced the Serbs to the nego­ti­ations table and brought this to an end.

    So, where do we stand? I agree that the West failed to solve this before bomb­ing became neces­sary. All dis­putes should be dealt with by nego­ti­ations in the first instance. And the second and third as well. Hav­ing failed to do this, some­times mil­it­ary action is all that’s avail­able. From what I’ve read of Milo­sevic, eth­nic cleans­ing of Kosovo was always on the cards, espe­cially after the West’s abor­tion­ate hand­ling of Bos­nia encour­aged him. There are times when you can’t nego­ti­ate, and by March 1999 this was one of them.

    As for the shit­fight that is Kosovo right now, well that’s because, as John Ral­ston Saul puts it ‘we seem to have lost our abil­ity to redraw bor­ders’. Kosovo is a limbo land, unable to become inde­pend­ant, but never again going to be a part of Ser­bia. Given the pro­hib­i­tion on bor­ders by the UN, I don’t see this being resolved any time soon. But the fact that the peace is sub­stand­ard does not mean that the war was not worth­while. At least 1.8 mil­lion Albani­ans are still where they should be. The biggest fly in the oint­ment is their treat­ment of the remain­ing Serbs; under­stand­able but still criminal.

    An inter­est­ing point you make is “All mil­it­ary and most non-military inter­ven­tions car­ried out by or in part­ner­ship with the U.S. since WWII can be boiled down to one basic prin­ciple, “they were not doing as they were told.”

    How does the Korean War fit in with this? Shoule the US and the West have let the North con­quer the South. Or how about Somalia in 1991? In fact, is there any cir­cum­stance in which you believe it is accept­able for the West to use it’s mil­it­ary strength?

    One last point. You say that “In fact I believe the nation-state sys­tem is largely respons­ible for war and chaos.” War, slavery and gen­o­cide were around long before the nation state. Given that glob­al­isa­tion is a dead duck, they will be around for a lot longer. How we organ­ise ourselves has noth­ing to do with the fact that we fight. It is simply a part of the human con­di­tion. Get used to it; when Peak Oil hits we’re in for a wave of wars like noth­ing our spe­cies has ever seen before.

    I’d leave Lon­don and come back home if I was you.…

    Cheers,

    Tane.

  21. Tane W,

    Che,

    You said;

    in the com­menters defence, i think they see ‘The West’ as being a little like the United Fed­er­a­tion of Plan­ets. they may be the good guys, but they fck things up occasionally.

    i see this pos­i­tion as being altrusic­ally naive. the civil­ising mis­sion was a classic.

    I guess I wasn’t being clear enough in my writ­ing. I do not con­sider the West to be the good guys, I’m well aware of the fail­ings of it’s elites over the last 50 years. At the same time I do not believe that it is inher­ently evil and like Sauron only cap­able of doing ill. Even a self-centred, power hungry pack of bas­tards can do the right thing on occasion.

    This may not fit in with your trendy-lefty view of the world, but I don’t see it as being “altrusic­ally naive”. Naiv­ety might be bet­ter described as an unin­formed and mono­chrome view of the world.

    I hope I’m a bit clearer on where I stand now. Well left of centre, but not fall­ing off the edge.

  22. Tane wrote:

    Firstly, your inter­est­ing com­ment: ‘Well, except that Tane con­siders him­self a lefty.’

    We don’t live in a mon­chrome world, and there are many dif­fer­ent shades of left-wing lib­eral. You are not the liv­ing exem­plar of all that it is to be a lefty. If I dis­agree with you on some points (and we are dis­agree­ing on points, not on a broad issue) then that does not make me a wan­nabe lib­eral or a right-wingnut. Please don’t get all Judean People’s Front/People’s Front of Judea on me.

    I really didn’t mean it that way at all. I meant to point out that I wasn’t “attract­ing the more reas­on­able of the right” but a lefty. You can’t judge someone’s polit­ical out­look by one con­ver­sa­tion, hence the use of “con­siders him­self” (as you do judging by your state­ment “Us lefties …”).

  23. Tane W,

    Sorry, my mis­take. I must be get­ting sens­it­ive in my old age.

    I with­draw my com­ment and offer my apologies.

  24. Richard,

    about Oper­a­tion Horse­hoe:
    I would have to read the ICTY tran­scripts to have more details. Michael Ignatieff is a mem­ber of the caviar and cham­pagne cour­tesan crowd of the Coun­cil of For­eign Rela­tions, not exactly a ser­i­ous author­ity a stu­dent of his­tory can trust.

    http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-373es.html

    quote:
    Moreover, there is increas­ing reason to ques­tion the cred­ib­il­ity of the Oper­a­tion Horse­shoe account. The exist­ence of the oper­a­tion was ori­gin­ally pub­li­cized by Joschka Fisc­her, the Ger­man for­eign min­is­ter, on April 6, 1999, almost two weeks after NATO star­ted bomb­ing Ser­bia and at a time when Ger­man pub­lic opin­ion about the Luftwaffes par­ti­cip­a­tion in the air strikes was divided. Horseshoe-or Potkova, as the Ger­man author­it­ies said it was known in Belgrade-thereafter became a staple of NATO brief­ings and was presen­ted as proof that Milo­sevic had planned to expel Kosovo’s eth­nic Albani­ans all along.State Depart­ment spokes­man James Rubin cited Oper­a­tion Horse­shoe as recently as March 2000 to jus­tify NATO’s bom­bard­ment. How­ever, Heinz Loquai, a retired bri­gadier gen­eral in the Ger­man army who now works for the OSCE, claims that the Horse­shoe “plan” was fab­ric­ated from run-of-the-mill Bul­garian intel­li­gence reports.48 Loquai has accused Rudolf Scharp­ing, the Ger­man defense min­is­ter, of obscur­ing the ques­tion­able ori­gins of Oper­a­tion Horse­shoe, and he claims that the Ger­man Defense Min­istry turned a Bul­garian intel­li­gence agency ana­lysis of Ser­bian war­time beha­vior into a “plan.” and even coined the name “Horse­shoe.” Loquai points to a fun­da­mental flaw in the Ger­man account: it named the oper­a­tion Potkova, which is the Croa­tian word for horse­shoe. The Ser­bian word for horse­shoe is Potkovica. “A state pro­sec­utor would never think of going to trial with the amount of evid­ence avail­able to the Ger­man defense min­istry,” says Loquai. “The facts to sup­port its exist­ence are at best ter­ribly mea­ger,” he con­tends. “I have come to the con­clu­sion that no such oper­a­tion ever existed.“49

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